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Government of Wales Bill

After hearing that speech and the remarks of my noble friend, I hope that when we come to Part 4 the noble Lord will enthusiastically support this party, which basically says, ““Let’s get on with it and have a referendum. Let’s make it easier to have a referendum””. Then we entirely agree with the proposition advanced from the Liberal Democrat Benches. I was glad to hear what he said. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, loves to take us back in history. On this occasion, he took us back to the 18th century. The last time we were here, he took us back to some remarks of the great Lord Salisbury with which he disagreed. It is always rather dangerous to go such a step. It tempted me to make a few inquiries and I discovered that, in the first Home Rule debate, immediately after Lord Rosebery had succeeded as Prime Minister and leader of his party, he said that,"““before Irish Home Rule is concluded by the Imperial Parliament, England as the predominant member of the partnership of the three kingdoms will have to be convinced of its justice and equity””." It was not a remark that went down very well with the Celtic fringe of the Liberal Party at the time. Indeed, it led to the almost immediate and crushing defeat on the subject, because the Prime Minister had given an English veto. Listening to the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, I wondered what his position was going to be as we move down this route. No doubt I was also prompted by the arrival of my noble friend Lord Baker of Dorking in his place, as he has recently raised the whole issue with his Bill, which is now in another place. I look forward to Part 4 and make it clear that, when we get there, the Conservative Party will give a great deal of support to the Liberal proposition. However, we cannot do so on this messy and confused part of the Bill. I hope that, when the time comes, I will have the noble Lord’s support on the amendments that I will move later this afternoon.