Debates on delegated legislation on Wednesday, 21 January 2026, in the House of Commons, led by Hilary Benn. The answering member was Alex Burghart.

Northern Ireland Troubles: Legacy and Reconciliation

Motion that the draft Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023 (Remedial) Order 2025, which was laid before this House on 14 October 2025, be approved. Agreed to on division (373 to 106).

Secondary information

Type: Parliamentary proceeding
Reference: 779 cc380-432
Session: 2024-26
Department: Northern Ireland Office
Procedure: Proxy voting
Chamber / Committee: House of Commons chamber
Related items: Proposal for a Draft Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023 (Remedial) Order 2024. Joint Committee on Human Rights first report.
Wednesday, 26 February 2025
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
House of Lords; Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023 (Remedial) Order
Tuesday, 14 October 2025
Statutory instruments
House of Commons
House of Lords; The Government's new approach to addressing the legacy of the past in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland Affairs Committee second report
Wednesday, 26 November 2025
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons; Draft Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023 (Remedial) Order 2025: Second Report. Joint Committee on Human Rights ninth report
Wednesday, 3 December 2025
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions: Hilary Benn | 779 c380 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move,
That the draft Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 202...; Fleur Anderson | 779 c380 (Link to this contribution)
I commend the Secretary of State for the careful and thoughtful work that he has done to bring th...; Caroline Nokes | 779 c380 (Link to this contribution)
Order. This is a very long intervention. Many speakers wish to get in this afternoon, so I urge M...; Hilary Benn | 779 c381 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with my hon. Friend that the legacy Act needed dealing with. Any Government that came int...; Andrew Murrison | 779 c381 (Link to this contribution)
It is worth bringing to the House’s attention again the fact that the legacy Act, whatever its le...; Hilary Benn | 779 c381 (Link to this contribution)
That is indeed a wholly accurate description of the sequence of events, because this Government d...; John Hayes | 779 c381 (Link to this contribution)
I am extremely grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way; he is an immensely courteous Me...; Hilary Benn | 779 cc381-2 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for raising that point. If he will bear with me, I will...; Julian Lewis | 779 c382 (Link to this contribution)
May I remind the Secretary of State—I know that he knows it, as he has heard it from me and other...; Hilary Benn | 779 c382 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right when he describes the provisions of the 1998 legisla...; David Smith | 779 c382 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend may shortly be coming on to this, but civil cases have been raised as a conc...; Hilary Benn | 779 c383 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. Those 800 cases were untouched and the Act...; Gavin Robinson | 779 c383 (Link to this contribution)
I intend to return to this matter in my contribution later on, but the issue of civil cases highl...; Hilary Benn | 779 c383 (Link to this contribution)
It is not unusual for higher courts to take a different view on a matter to that taken by lower c...; Gavin Robinson | 779 c383 (Link to this contribution)
indicated dissent.; Hilary Benn | 779 c383 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Gentleman may disagree, but that is the view of the Government, and that is why we...; Mark Francois | 779 c384 (Link to this contribution)
As the Secretary of State well knows, the Blair Government handed out hundreds of so-called lette...; Hilary Benn | 779 c384 (Link to this contribution)
As I am sure the right hon. Gentleman is well aware, in that case Mr Downey was issued with a let...; David Davis | 779 c384 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Gentleman changes the subject, from what the letter of comfort was given for to wh...; Hilary Benn | 779 c384 (Link to this contribution)
If we are going to get on to the facts, the early release scheme was part of the Good Friday agre...; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c384 (Link to this contribution)
On that point, will the Secretary of State give way?; Hilary Benn | 779 cc384-5 (Link to this contribution)
I will make some progress.
We cannot and should not allow the victims of the troubles to be...; Jim Allister | 779 c385 (Link to this contribution)
The Secretary of State needs to go back to what the High Court judgment said in the Dillon case. ...; Hilary Benn | 779 c385 (Link to this contribution)
It does not rule it out under section 10 for this reason: there are two parts to the court’s ruli...; 779 c385 (Link to this contribution); Hilary Benn | 779 c385 (Link to this contribution)
I will give way to the two Members I have seen standing, and then I will bring my remarks to a cl...; Jim Allister | 779 cc385-6 (Link to this contribution)
May I refer the Secretary of State to what paragraph 710(ii) of the Dillon judgment says? It says...; Hilary Benn | 779 c386 (Link to this contribution)
With great respect, I disagree. In answer to the hon. and learned Gentleman’s first intervention,...; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c386 (Link to this contribution)
This is all getting quite technical, so I want to come back to the fundamentals of justice. If th...; Hilary Benn | 779 c386 (Link to this contribution)
I am of the view that I listen. I quoted what David Crabbe said earlier, and he was opposed to im...; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c386 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Secretary of State give way?; Hilary Benn | 779 cc386-7 (Link to this contribution)
I will continue.
I have tried to cover the point that some have argued, particularly in the...; Jim Shannon | 779 c387 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Secretary of State give way?; Hilary Benn | 779 c387 (Link to this contribution)
Since it is my friend the hon. Member, I will give way one last time.; Jim Shannon | 779 c387 (Link to this contribution)
On the point of trust, just so that we get it on record, is there any guarantee that the Republic...; Hilary Benn | 779 c387 (Link to this contribution)
The basis of the Republic of Ireland’s inter-state case, which is a matter for the Republic of Ir...; Desmond Swayne | 779 c387 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Secretary of State give way?; Hilary Benn | 779 c387 (Link to this contribution)
No.; Mark Francois | 779 c387 (Link to this contribution)
He is on the Committee.; Hilary Benn | 779 c387 (Link to this contribution)
Well, how could I resist?; Desmond Swayne | 779 c387 (Link to this contribution)
I just ask the Secretary of State to acknowledge that the Committee’s opinion was not unanimous.<...; Hilary Benn | 779 cc387-8 (Link to this contribution)
I was not about to advance the argument that it was a unanimous decision, but many a piece of leg...; Caroline Nokes | 779 c388 (Link to this contribution)
I call the shadow Secretary of State.
4.42 pm; Alex Burghart | 779 cc388-9 (Link to this contribution)
It is an honour and a privilege to speak in this important debate. It is particularly important b...; Iain Duncan Smith | 779 c389 (Link to this contribution)
In essence, what my hon. Friend is talking about here with the agreements about the destruction o...; Alex Burghart | 779 cc389-390 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend could not be more correct. It has always been one-way traffic, and whenever ...; David Davis | 779 c390 (Link to this contribution)
The Secretary of State—who tells the truth—frequently says that the parties in Northern Ireland d...; Alex Burghart | 779 c390 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend has always had a very good head for what is popular. I will check his figure...; David Smith | 779 c390 (Link to this contribution)
We can talk about political parties and we can talk about the general population, but does the sh...; Alex Burghart | 779 c390 (Link to this contribution)
No, I do not acknowledge that. I have met victims, and people whose families were heavily affecte...; Julian Lewis | 779 c390 (Link to this contribution)
It is often said, and rightly, that what is very important is that families should find out the t...; Alex Burghart | 779 c391 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend has very succinctly summarised the central argument behind the Northern Irel...; David Davis | 779 c391 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes a very good point about that specific case. The judge also criticised the al...; Alex Burghart | 779 c391 (Link to this contribution)
Again, I agree with my right hon. Friend. In some quarters, there is an industry that I fear is a...; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c391 (Link to this contribution)
As well as the self-licking lollipop of legislation and compensation, does my hon. Friend acknowl...; Alex Burghart | 779 c391 (Link to this contribution)
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend, who has great experience of these matters. The truth is tha...; Richard Tice | 779 c391 (Link to this contribution)
Surely we are regrettably here because of our membership of a foreign court. Without our membersh...; Alex Burghart | 779 c392 (Link to this contribution)
That is exactly one of the reasons why the next Conservative Government will leave the European c...; Desmond Swayne | 779 c392 (Link to this contribution)
The Human Rights Act 1998 does not require the Government to take any action as a consequence of ...; Alex Burghart | 779 c392 (Link to this contribution)
I believe that we almost got a scintilla of insight into how my right hon. Friend feels about the...; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c392 (Link to this contribution)
I hope I am not misquoting the Secretary of State, but he said the Government are using this guil...; Alex Burghart | 779 c392 (Link to this contribution)
Once again, my hon. Friend is quite right, because if the remedial order goes through both Houses...; Geoffrey Cox | 779 c393 (Link to this contribution)
It seems to me that the Secretary of State is adopting a highly technical and extremely unmeritor...; Alex Burghart | 779 c393 (Link to this contribution)
I am delighted to have the support, on a matter of pure legal substance, of my right hon. Friend—...; Mark Francois | 779 c393 (Link to this contribution)
And learned!; Alex Burghart | 779 c393 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, my right hon. and very learned Friend.
The truth is that, if one looks back at the deb...; Julian Lewis | 779 c393 (Link to this contribution)
Oh!; Alex Burghart | 779 c393 (Link to this contribution)
I meant to say, “the joint first best part of the New Forest”.
The Secretary of State has i...; Peter Swallow | 779 c393 (Link to this contribution)
I am also a member of the Joint Committee on Human Rights. Although I cannot respond directly to ...; Alex Burghart | 779 c393 (Link to this contribution)
I am not doubting that the Committee examined all the evidence available to it; I am disputing wh...; Robin Swann | 779 c393 (Link to this contribution)
Would the hon. Gentleman consider that there is a political reason for the Northern Ireland Offic...; Alex Burghart | 779 c394 (Link to this contribution)
I suspect very strongly that the hon. Gentleman is right. I suspect that this is bound up in the ...; Claire Hanna | 779 c394 (Link to this contribution)
I think that many of those supporting the Omagh families would like to see a parallel and compreh...; Alex Burghart | 779 c394 (Link to this contribution)
I would have been very open to that idea, but I believe that the previous Administration did not ...; Jim Shannon | 779 c394 (Link to this contribution)
The reason we do not trust the Irish Government on legacy issues is clear. It was a murder haven ...; Alex Burghart | 779 c394 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; David Davis | 779 c394 (Link to this contribution)
Would my hon. Friend give way on that point?; Alex Burghart | 779 c394 (Link to this contribution)
If my right hon. Friend will allow me, I will respond to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shan...; David Davis | 779 c395 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend’s comments tie in directly to those from the hon. Member for Belfast South and Mid...; Alex Burghart | 779 c395 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed. Those are all things that we would all love to get to the bottom of.
As I draw my r...; Tonia Antoniazzi | 779 c395 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; Alex Burghart | 779 c395 (Link to this contribution)
I am happy to give way to the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee.; Tonia Antoniazzi | 779 c395 (Link to this contribution)
I would like to make the point that a lot of work is done in good faith in this House, particular...; Alex Burghart | 779 c395 (Link to this contribution)
I take everything the hon. Lady’s Committee does incredibly seriously. There is a good deal of ex...; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c395 (Link to this contribution)
The shadow Secretary of State makes a very powerful point, but I think it is worth putting it on ...; Alex Burghart | 779 c396 (Link to this contribution)
I am very pleased that my hon. Friend had the opportunity to put on the record. Sadly, there are ...; Andy McDonald | 779 cc396-7 (Link to this contribution)
I welcome the introduction of the remedial order. It is a necessary and overdue step if the Gover...; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c397 (Link to this contribution)
I am new in this place, but my sense of the hon. Member is that he a great parliamentarian, so I ...; Andy McDonald | 779 c397 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Member for that intervention. There is an obligation on the Government under sec...; Judith Cummins | 779 c397 (Link to this contribution)
I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.
5.21 pm; Paul Kohler | 779 cc397-8 (Link to this contribution)
I have listened carefully to those who have spoken before me, and while there are clear differenc...; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c398 (Link to this contribution)
I fear that the Liberal Democrat spokesman may have misspoken earlier in his remarks. I will quot...; Paul Kohler | 779 c399 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, in other words, it is for our Government to stand up for our international obligations. Hon....; David Davis | 779 c399 (Link to this contribution)
The point that my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Spelthorne (Lincoln Jopp) made relates d...; Paul Kohler | 779 c399 (Link to this contribution)
The Government have a choice to make: whether to stand up for our international obligations. That...; Stuart Anderson | 779 c399 (Link to this contribution)
I have seen a pattern forming. I hope the hon. Member did not misquote when he said that the Libe...; Paul Kohler | 779 c399 (Link to this contribution)
We have a greater percentage, I think the hon. Gentleman will find—[Interruption.] I did say that...; Mark Francois | 779 c399 (Link to this contribution)
So where are they all?; Paul Kohler | 779 c399 (Link to this contribution)
Listen to what I said.; Stuart Anderson | 779 c399 (Link to this contribution)
May I follow up on that point?; Paul Kohler | 779 c399 (Link to this contribution)
We need more gravity in the House than this. The grandstanding, the jocularity, the jokes—this is...; 779 c399 (Link to this contribution); Paul Kohler | 779 c399 (Link to this contribution)
No, I will not give way.; Andrew Murrison | 779 c399 (Link to this contribution)
On a serious point—; Paul Kohler | 779 c399 (Link to this contribution)
No. Now it is just grandstanding, and I will not give in to more of that.; Judith Cummins | 779 c399 (Link to this contribution)
Order. Please sit down, Mr Kohler. The temperature needs to be lowered to allow the hon. Gentlema...; Paul Kohler | 779 c400 (Link to this contribution)
If we are serious about moving towards a shared and stable future for Northern Ireland, legacy pr...; Peter Swallow | 779 c400 (Link to this contribution)
I felt that it was important that I speak today as a member of the Joint Committee on Human Right...; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c401 (Link to this contribution)
As the hon. Member says, we are considering this order alongside the Bill. I am grateful to the J...; Peter Swallow | 779 c401 (Link to this contribution)
I am happy to jump forward in my speech to address the issue that the hon. Member raises, but I w...; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c401 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Member is describing the Bill, but we are not here to debate the Bill; we are here to de...; Peter Swallow | 779 c402 (Link to this contribution)
As the report sets out, the Government set forward their reasons for proceeding with the remedial...; 779 c402 (Link to this contribution); Judith Cummins | 779 c402 (Link to this contribution)
Order. Members will have seen the interest in the debate shown by the number of Members on their ...; David Davis | 779 cc402-3 (Link to this contribution)
I suppose I should declare an interest: I was the only person, other than Tom Watson, to have had...; Peter Swallow | 779 c403 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for referring to our report to advance his argument. Wo...; David Davis | 779 c403 (Link to this contribution)
I encourage everybody to read it. I am not saying that people should take my word for it; I am sa...; Sammy Wilson | 779 c403 (Link to this contribution)
The figures given by the Secretary of State bear out the right hon. Gentleman’s argument. Of the ...; David Davis | 779 cc403-4 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Gentleman has a long and honourable service in this area. He is exactly right, and...; Gregory Campbell | 779 c404 (Link to this contribution)
Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that a classic example of what he is saying was the Shankill...; David Davis | 779 cc404-5 (Link to this contribution)
That is part of what my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Spelthorne (Lincoln Jopp) was desc...; Calvin Bailey | 779 c405 (Link to this contribution)
Will the right hon. Member give way?; David Davis | 779 c405 (Link to this contribution)
Forgive me but I will not, as I want to get to the end of this. As we know, Gerry Adams is alread...; Alex Ballinger | 779 cc405-6 (Link to this contribution)
I am happy to speak in support of the motion as set out on the Order Paper.
The wider conte...; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c406 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. and gallant Gentleman for giving way. He has glossed over another thing...; Alex Ballinger | 779 c407 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to have the opportunity to gently correct the hon. and gallant Gentleman. When aske...; Andrew Murrison | 779 c407 (Link to this contribution)
I have been listening very carefully to what the hon. and gallant Gentleman has said. He is right...; Alex Ballinger | 779 c407 (Link to this contribution)
I am a veteran, and I speak to many veterans, and I think the right hon. Gentleman will agree tha...; Peter Swallow | 779 c407 (Link to this contribution)
Let me briefly recognise the point that my hon. Friend has just made. We cannot have immunity for...; Alex Ballinger | 779 c407 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is right. It is important for everyone involved, including the many veterans conce...; Sammy Wilson | 779 c407 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?; Alex Ballinger | 779 c407 (Link to this contribution)
I will give way one more time, but then I must make progress.; Sammy Wilson | 779 c407 (Link to this contribution)
It is not about the rule of law. This is about the terrorist organisations seeking to rewrite the...; Alex Ballinger | 779 c408 (Link to this contribution)
I do not have the statistics in front of me, but the right hon. Gentleman will know that the over...; 779 c408 (Link to this contribution); Judith Cummins | 779 c408 (Link to this contribution)
Order. Members may wish to know that I will shortly bring in a three-minute time limit. Without a...; Gavin Robinson | 779 cc408-410 (Link to this contribution)
On a point of agreement and positivity, may I thank the Leader of the House and the usual channel...; Claire Hanna | 779 cc410-2 (Link to this contribution)
The Social Democratic and Labour party welcomes this remedial order, which goes some way to resto...; 779 c412 (Link to this contribution); Judith Cummins | 779 c412 (Link to this contribution)
Order. If Members limit their interventions, we can start with a four-minute time limit.
6....; Julian Lewis | 779 cc412-3 (Link to this contribution)
In the limited time available, I shall try to address a few of the basic issues, including those ...; Calvin Bailey | 779 cc413-4 (Link to this contribution)
Today I am going to try to speak as freely as I can about something in which I believe passionate...; Caroline Nokes | 779 c414 (Link to this contribution)
Order. Unfortunately, the hon. Gentleman has reached the time limit.
6.20 pm; Iain Duncan Smith | 779 cc414-5 (Link to this contribution)
I congratulate Members who have spoken, particularly the right hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavi...; Sarah Pochin | 779 cc415-6 (Link to this contribution)
This remedial order is just another step by this Government towards repealing and overriding the ...; Alex Easton | 779 cc416-7 (Link to this contribution)
I rise as a proud Unionist from Northern Ireland, and as somebody who stands four-square with our...; Sorcha Eastwood | 779 c417 (Link to this contribution)
I welcome this move today by the Government, and I welcome the removal of the word “reconciliatio...; Sammy Wilson | 779 c418 (Link to this contribution)
Veterans will have heard the honeyed words of the Secretary of State at the start of his speech t...; Julian Lewis | 779 c418 (Link to this contribution)
Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that the people on this side of the argument who oppose what...; Sammy Wilson | 779 cc418-9 (Link to this contribution)
No, it has nothing to do with justice.
Although the Secretary of State and others today hav...; Carla Lockhart | 779 cc419-420 (Link to this contribution)
We have been unwavering in our opposition to the notion of immunity. There has never been a justi...; Jim Allister | 779 cc420-1 (Link to this contribution)
On the first Sunday of this year, I stood with the families of the innocent victims of the Kingsm...; Jim Shannon | 779 c421 (Link to this contribution)
Myself and my party, the DUP, stand squarely—[Interruption.]; Iain Duncan Smith | 779 c421 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman take an intervention?; Jim Shannon | 779 c421 (Link to this contribution)
indicated assent.; Iain Duncan Smith | 779 c421 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful. I am sure that what the hon. Gentleman is about to tell us will be very important....; Jim Shannon | 779 c421 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that intervention.
The door to justice must remain ope...; David Smith | 779 c421 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman will know the respect with which he is held in this Chamber for raising attent...; Jim Shannon | 779 cc422-3 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for that. My cousin Kenneth Smyth and his good friend Daniel McCormick wer...; Robin Swann | 779 cc423-4 (Link to this contribution)
Can I ask the House to pay tribute to and acknowledge the contribution of my hon. Friend the Memb...; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c424 (Link to this contribution)
I want to make a couple of points, one about democracy and one about service and justice. I am de...; Peter Swallow | 779 c424 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Member give way?; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c424 (Link to this contribution)
I haven’t got time. I do not think that we are doing the House, or indeed Parliament, justice by ...; Gavin Robinson | 779 c424 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Member give way?; Lincoln Jopp | 779 cc424-5 (Link to this contribution)
I will not.
I challenged the hon. Member for Halesowen (Alex Ballinger) earlier, asking him...; Hilary Benn | 779 c425 (Link to this contribution)
We have had a very full and wide-ranging debate in which many different contributions have been m...; Stuart Anderson | 779 c425 (Link to this contribution)
The Secretary of State said there is no consensus in Northern Ireland. Having listened to tonight...; Hilary Benn | 779 c425 (Link to this contribution)
I have listened very carefully to every single contribution, and I think it is fair to say that t...; Alex Burghart | 779 c425 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Gentleman is generous in giving way. Does he accept that conditional immunity, whi...; Hilary Benn | 779 c425 (Link to this contribution)
What I am saying is that the Government do not agree with the conditional immunity contained in t...; 779 c425 (Link to this contribution); Hilary Benn | 779 cc425-6 (Link to this contribution)
I am going to make some progress because I am trying to respond to the many points raised in the ...; Gavin Robinson | 779 c426 (Link to this contribution)
I understand why the Secretary of State focuses on amnesty, because it means that he does not hav...; Hilary Benn | 779 cc426-7 (Link to this contribution)
We are all subject to the decisions of the Court. The right hon. Gentleman asks a hypothetical qu...; Lincoln Jopp | 779 c427 (Link to this contribution)
rose—; Hilary Benn | 779 c427 (Link to this contribution)
I am not going to give way because I want to respond to the other points raised.
What the c...; David Reed | 779 c427 (Link to this contribution)
That is exactly what it is.; Hilary Benn | 779 cc427-8 (Link to this contribution)
No, it is not about dredging up the past. Like many right hon. and hon. Members, I have met far t...; Gavin Robinson | 779 c432 (Link to this contribution)
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I mentioned this briefly in my opening remarks, but I ...; Judith Cummins | 779 c432 (Link to this contribution)
While that is not a point of order, it is very much appreciated and it is on the record.
Subjects: Criminal investigation Civil proceedings Coroners Evidence Human rights Immunity from prosecution Northern Ireland Prosecutions Victims Terrorism Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery Veterans
Legislation: Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023 (Remedial) Order 2025
Link: View this Parliamentary proceeding on hansard.parliament.uk

Northern Ireland Troubles: Legacy and Reconciliation

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