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Budget debate on Monday, 17 March 2008, in the House of Commons, led by Hilary Benn. The answering member was Peter Ainsworth.

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Budget debate (third day): economy and the environment.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
473 c635-716 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Keith Vaz | 473 c677-8 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to take part in this debate on the Budget resolutions. I am pleased, too, to follow t...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c678 (Link to this contribution) May I strongly reinforce what my right hon. Friend is saying? I have a constituent who was an employ...
Show all contributions (151)
Lord Redwood | 473 c669 (Link to this contribution) It has been interesting to be present at this debate, which is a bit like ““Groundhog Day””. We had ...
Harry Cohen | 473 c668-9 (Link to this contribution) Okay. I come to the last relevant issue, which is child poverty. This should have been the Budget t...
Lord Redwood | 473 c670-2 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Gentleman knows me well enough to be aware that that is not my view of the wor...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c669 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman seems to be putting forward a rather socialist message, which I welcome, in...
Lord Redwood | 473 c672-3 (Link to this contribution) The speed of reaction shows an important contrast. I am pleased that the Bear Stearns rescue took pl...
Lord Bellingham | 473 c672 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend speaks with a great deal of expertise, but would he agree that one of the inter...
Lord Redwood | 473 c673-7 (Link to this contribution) All banking factors in the probability that some people will not be able to repay. There is not one ...
Martin Horwood | 473 c673 (Link to this contribution) Is not one of the problems with the sub-prime business model that it factors in the cost of debt rec...
Lord Bellingham | 473 c638 (Link to this contribution) Has the Secretary of State looked any further into giving householders an incentive, such as a reduc...
Hilary Benn | 473 c638 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman will no doubt be aware, we are considering the role that feed-in tariffs could...
Nick Hurd | 473 c637 (Link to this contribution) Before the Secretary of State gets to the meat of the three principles, may I point out that both he...
Hilary Benn | 473 c637-8 (Link to this contribution) It will depend on the decision that the Government take about the use of international credits. As t...
Steve Webb | 473 c636 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State will be well aware that measuring the right thing is critical. He will know t...
Hilary Benn | 473 c636-7 (Link to this contribution) According to the measure that we use to report to the United Nations, because that is the way it ask...
Peter Ainsworth | 473 c635 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way so early in his speech. He has just...
Hilary Benn | 473 c636 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will bear with me, I shall give some of those figures in the course of my spee...
Hilary Benn | 473 c635 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the opportunity afforded by the Budget debate to discuss the challenge that we face as a c...
Peter Ainsworth | 473 c640 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to return to the same point, but if the Secretary of State cannot give us a figure for th...
Geoffrey Cox | 473 c639 (Link to this contribution) Can the Secretary of State suggest how a rural farmer or country dweller will be able to do without ...
Hilary Benn | 473 c640 (Link to this contribution) From memory, I think that the best-in-class 4x4 has an emissions figure of 151 g of CO2 per kilometr...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c640 (Link to this contribution) How many family vehicles has the Secretary of State been advised that the car companies are intendin...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c639 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend referred to feed-in tariffs, which we welcome—they cover revenue costs and help...
Hilary Benn | 473 c639 (Link to this contribution) Following the consultation that the Government are going to undertake on them, feed-in tariffs would...
Peter Ainsworth | 473 c641 (Link to this contribution) I may be able to help the Secretary of State out at this point. I think that he may have inadvertent...
Hilary Benn | 473 c640-1 (Link to this contribution) The reduction relating to the change in car taxation is some 500,000 tonnes of CO2 a year; that is t...
Hilary Benn | 473 c641 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will bear with me, I want to make a little progress, having been generous is g...
Stewart Hosie | 473 c641 (Link to this contribution) On the issue of offshore wind generation, will the Government finally address the unfairness and imb...
Hilary Benn | 473 c641 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. I apologise for that mistake. The answer on vehicle excise d...
Hilary Benn | 473 c642 (Link to this contribution) I am indeed aware of that. I was referring to European Union countries building demonstration projec...
Nick Hurd | 473 c642 (Link to this contribution) I attach the same importance to clean coal technology as the right hon. Gentleman, but will he clari...
Hilary Benn | 473 c641-2 (Link to this contribution) The fact that we are now the No. 1 location for investment, and that we will overtake Denmark as the...
Lord Barker of Battle | 473 c642 (Link to this contribution) Is the Secretary of State not aware of the BP Abu Dhabi CCS project, which was announced at the worl...
Hilary Benn | 473 c642-3 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform will make...
Hilary Benn | 473 c643 (Link to this contribution) No, there is no disjunction. We have put a considerable amount of money into several such organisati...
Steve Webb | 473 c643 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has been generous in giving way. He briefly mentioned business recycling and ...
Hilary Benn | 473 c644 (Link to this contribution) That is the case, as I just acknowledged, because of the substantial increase in the prices that ene...
Harry Cohen | 473 c644 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has been generous in giving way. A wish is not the same as a requirement for en...
Hilary Benn | 473 c644 (Link to this contribution) I will happily tell my hon. Friend what my view and the Government's view is. We think it is now tim...
Lord McLoughlin | 473 c644 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Hilary Benn | 473 c644 (Link to this contribution) I am going to bring my remarks to a conclusion, as I have been very generous in giving way. One the...
Peter Ainsworth | 473 c645-7 (Link to this contribution) I have to take issue with the Secretary of State's final sentence. He barely spoke about the Budget ...
Stewart Hosie | 473 c648 (Link to this contribution) Is not the position actually worse than that? In the next two years, the take on the vehicle excise ...
Peter Ainsworth | 473 c648 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Gentleman makes an extremely good point. That is one of the reasons why the Se...
Hilary Benn | 473 c647 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman confirm to the House that the figures that we report to the United Nations f...
Peter Ainsworth | 473 c647-8 (Link to this contribution) I accept that. However, this becomes more difficult when that method of measurement is applied to UK...
Lord Redwood | 473 c653 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. Gentleman also apply that to the Government, who are the biggest offender in not putt...
Alan Simpson | 473 c652-3 (Link to this contribution) Sadly, that is precisely what I am saying. We are going back to the days of the south sea bubble, wh...
Peter Ainsworth | 473 c648-51 (Link to this contribution) We have supported the banding, and I have said that we support the principle that if we are to have ...
Steve Webb | 473 c648 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, there are two points here: what happens to the money and the structure of the tax. If all t...
Lord Bellingham | 473 c654 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a superb speech, and I congratulate him on having one of the six houses...
Steve Webb | 473 c657 (Link to this contribution) It is always refreshing to follow the hon. Member for Nottingham, South (Alan Simpson). Of the three...
Alan Simpson | 473 c653-4 (Link to this contribution) I would include the Government. In fact that was my second point. The second rule that I would bring...
Steve Webb | 473 c659 (Link to this contribution) That is right, and such examples expose the timidity of the 2019 goals for various measures in the B...
Nick Hurd | 473 c658 (Link to this contribution) Do the Liberal Democrats therefore support a cap on the purchase of overseas credits, and if so what...
Steve Webb | 473 c657-8 (Link to this contribution) I fully accept the distinction, but given that CO2 is the largest of the greenhouse gases by a long ...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c659 (Link to this contribution) Another example of a transformation that took place quickly and effectively was the switch from coal...
Steve Webb | 473 c658-9 (Link to this contribution) I do support such a cap, and before the Bill reaches this House, I shall read the debates in the oth...
Lord Redwood | 473 c659 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes some interesting points. Is it Liberal Democrat policy to accept the levels...
Steve Webb | 473 c659-61 (Link to this contribution) We certainly think that the increased VED should continue: it should not be a one-off hit. We also t...
Martin Horwood | 473 c661 (Link to this contribution) In fact, there is a precedent for a very simple system: the charitable gift aid process. Donors make...
Steve Webb | 473 c661-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. There is probably a variety of ways of doing it, of which that is o...
Steve Webb | 473 c663 (Link to this contribution) There was an interesting elision—in fact, the hon. Gentleman corrected himself as he spoke. He knows...
Lord Barker of Battle | 473 c663 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman does not grasp that we need to do all those things. Is he aware that there are 17...
Steve Webb | 473 c662-3 (Link to this contribution) It clearly is a gimmicky idea, and I say that for a reason. There is a cost-benefit analysis for eac...
Lord Barker of Battle | 473 c662 (Link to this contribution) With respect, before the hon. Gentleman starts to criticise policy he ought at least to take time to...
Steve Webb | 473 c663 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Gentleman tell me that the shadow Chancellor has said to him that the money can go on p...
Peter Ainsworth | 473 c663 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to intervene on the hon. Gentleman, because I sense that the House is getting rather tire...
Steve Webb | 473 c663 (Link to this contribution) We are talking about a £9 billion windfall in the second round, and the third round of licences will...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c664 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a point in support of the hon. Gentleman. He says that investing in insulating poor p...
Steve Webb | 473 c664 (Link to this contribution) I certainly share the view that that is a priority, and it is an improvement that we can make now, r...
Harry Cohen | 473 c664-8 (Link to this contribution) I want to speak about the Budget overall, but I shall start by giving my pennyworth on the environme...
Harry Cohen | 473 c668 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in a moment. As the briefing points out, if the Tories had not abolished the link ...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c668 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made my point for me.
Angela Eagle | 473 c715 (Link to this contribution) I am disappointed, Mr. Deputy Speaker, as I thought we were going to hear the Conservative Front-Ben...
Justine Greening | 473 c715 (Link to this contribution) I assume that the Minister is aware that her colleague, the Minister for Lifelong Learning, Further ...
Angela Eagle | 473 c715 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps we are still going to get an answer!
Angela Eagle | 473 c715-6 (Link to this contribution) We still have no answer, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to whether Conservative Front Benchers are in favour or...
Angela Eagle | 473 c715 (Link to this contribution) If I am going to get a policy idea, I will give way.
Peter Ainsworth | 473 c715 (Link to this contribution) Let me make a further attempt to get the answer to a very simple question. How much carbon will be r...
Angela Eagle | 473 c713-4 (Link to this contribution) I notice with great pride that this Government have ended the connection between age and poverty for...
Bob Russell | 473 c713 (Link to this contribution) Has the Minister noticed, while on her walkabouts, that the gap between the rich and the poor has wi...
Angela Eagle | 473 c713 (Link to this contribution) No, let me finish. When we came into government, we inherited a wrecked public infrastructure, in w...
Geoffrey Cox | 473 c713 (Link to this contribution) Will the Exchequer Secretary give way on that point?
Angela Eagle | 473 c714-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman—[Hon. Members: ““Right honourable.””] The right hon. Gentleman—my apologies—made ...
Lord Redwood | 473 c714 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether the Minister is going to respond to the debate, but it would be useful to have...
Justine Greening | 473 c712 (Link to this contribution) At Treasury questions the week before last, I asked whether the sustainable investment rule would be...
Angela Eagle | 473 c712-3 (Link to this contribution) The Budget forecasts deal with that issue. I refer the hon. Lady to the appropriate pages of the Red...
Angela Eagle | 473 c712 (Link to this contribution) We had the highest rate of growth in the G7 last year, at 3 per cent. The hon. Gentleman fails to ta...
Justine Greening | 473 c710-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises a good point. Not everyone is able to change to a lower-carbon car. Even if th...
Nigel Evans | 473 c710 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that cars and 4x4s in rural areas are not a luxury, but working farming v...
Lord Bellingham | 473 c712 (Link to this contribution) What about the trade deficit, which I gather is the worst since records began? Am I right in saying ...
Angela Eagle | 473 c711-2 (Link to this contribution) The debate has been interesting. Last week's Budget was delivered against the background of the most...
Justine Greening | 473 c705-6 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to wind up the debate on behalf of the Opposition, particularly on a topic as impor...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c705 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree, and I know that my hon. Friend has worked extremely hard with the pub trade to e...
Justine Greening | 473 c706-10 (Link to this contribution) We have talked about a whole range of green taxes that we would like to see. We set out the increase...
Steve Webb | 473 c706 (Link to this contribution) I very much share the hon. Lady's analysis that green taxes should form a substantially higher share...
Bill Wiggin | 473 c701-5 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), who was right to say tha...
Nigel Evans | 473 c705 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is defending the cider industry, a great British industry that is based in his consti...
Bob Russell | 473 c701 (Link to this contribution) On the point about brownfield and greenfield land, does my hon. Friend agree that it would help if t...
Martin Horwood | 473 c697-700 (Link to this contribution) My main concern today is addressing environmental issues, but I shall begin by addressing another is...
Geoffrey Cox | 473 c695-7 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I shall not as I wish to make progress. There is a problem o...
Martin Horwood | 473 c695 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Geoffrey Cox | 473 c694-5 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will simply listen, he will hear what I am about to say—and I should add that ...
Martin Horwood | 473 c694 (Link to this contribution) Do the hon. and learned Gentleman's constituents not recognise that their tranquillity, well-being a...
Geoffrey Cox | 473 c693-4 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful. I thank my hon. Friend. The position that I have found myself adopting as I li...
Geoffrey Cox | 473 c692 (Link to this contribution) Has the right hon. Gentleman heard, as I have during the process of network change, as it is called,...
Charles Kennedy | 473 c692-3 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. and learned Gentleman for that helpful contribution. He makes a telling point, whic...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c689 (Link to this contribution) I am not at all relaxed about that. I have no envy in my nature at all, but I believe in justice. So...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c688 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. Many hon. Members will have read the ““Green Budget”” report b...
David Leslie Taylor | 473 c688 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend talks about the very rich. Does he recall that the former right hon. Member for Hartl...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c689-90 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised and disappointed. There is a lot of talk about child poverty. The proportion of child...
Charles Kennedy | 473 c690-2 (Link to this contribution) We are all aware of the constraints within which the Chancellor operated this year. We are also awar...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c689 (Link to this contribution) Under Denis Healey, the top marginal rate was 83 per cent. and there was a 15 per cent. surcharge fo...
David Leslie Taylor | 473 c689 (Link to this contribution) Would my hon. Friend be surprised to learn that in the 11.5 years—those halcyon years, as Conservati...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c687-8 (Link to this contribution) Sometimes they put their money offshore. Those people have a low propensity to consume, as it is cal...
Harry Cohen | 473 c688 (Link to this contribution) I also have a NALGO connection. My hon. Friend and I—he, like me, is an old class warrior—would like...
Keith Vaz | 473 c680 (Link to this contribution) The Economic Secretary to the Exchequer?
Angela Eagle | 473 c680 (Link to this contribution) No, I am the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury.
Keith Vaz | 473 c680-1 (Link to this contribution) Great! I am glad that I have now caught up with the recent changes to the Government's lists. The G...
Lord Bellingham | 473 c681-5 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that the right hon. Member for Leicester, East (Keith Vaz) got into the wrong car. His st...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c685-7 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow so many good speeches. There are too many to mention, although I sh...
David Leslie Taylor | 473 c687 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way to a former NALGO member. He talks about the need for...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c687 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, as he often does, anticipates one of the major aspects of my speech: to applaud the ...
Keith Vaz | 473 c680 (Link to this contribution) As I have said, I am not an expert on beer drinking, but I have seen many people get very drunk on b...
Martin Horwood | 473 c680 (Link to this contribution) Would the right hon. Gentleman have liked the Chancellor to differentiate more between beer—on which...
Keith Vaz | 473 c679 (Link to this contribution) Yes, there were some people involved, but that applies to any bank. However, the bank as a whole was...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c679 (Link to this contribution) I strongly agree with my right hon. Friend. Would he like to see an even stricter regime, perhaps in...
Keith Vaz | 473 c678-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman is new in coming to the House and is therefore unaware of the campaig...
Geoffrey Cox | 473 c679 (Link to this contribution) I defended some of the people who were responsible.
Keith Vaz | 473 c678 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. In fact, he wrote to me about the case and I suggested that he w...
Geoffrey Cox | 473 c678 (Link to this contribution) Surely the right hon. Gentleman is not comparing BCCI to Northern Rock. BCCI was riven with fraud fr...
Phil Woolas | 473 c657 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to take up time, but I must say in response to a point that has been made in the debat...
Angela Eagle | 473 c715 (Link to this contribution) A pattern seems to be emerging from these facts. The Conservative party hopes that nice new eco-frie...
Martin Horwood | 473 c701 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has got it exactly right. Clearly, the Government need to do more about empty homes, ...
Alan Simpson | 473 c643-4 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend go back to the figures that he used? Does he accept that the current figur...
Kelvin Hopkins | 473 c652 (Link to this contribution) This may be a trivial point, but is my hon. Friend saying that bankers have learned nothing since th...
Keith Vaz | 473 c679 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend again anticipates me; he is absolutely right. I shall talk in a few moments about sup...
Hilary Benn | 473 c640 (Link to this contribution) I will be happy to write to the hon. Gentleman with a list of the best in class for all the differen...
Alan Simpson | 473 c651-2 (Link to this contribution) I would normally try to make my contribution to the Budget debate on the day on which the Chancellor...
Alan Simpson | 473 c655-7 (Link to this contribution) I do agree, and I ought to say that I was the chair of a waste disposal company in Nottinghamshire t...
Subjects
Climate change Cars Budgets Aggregates levy Carbon capture and storage Environment protection Energy supply Large goods vehicles Lighting Renewable energy Taxation Technology Research Vehicles Carbon emissions Carbon reduction commitment energy efficiency scheme Budget March 2008
Link
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