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Opposition day on Tuesday, 8 January 2008, in the House of Commons, led by Theresa Villiers. The answering member was Ruth Kelly.

Network Rail

Network Rail. Fifth opposition day debate (part 1). Motion negatived on division (303 votes to 235). Amendment agreed to on division (304 votes to 234).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
470 c160-222 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Transport
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Deposited Paper DEP2008-0263
Wednesday, 30 January 2008
Deposited papers
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 470 c160 (Link to this contribution) We come now to the first debate on the Opposition motions. I inform the House that I have selected t...
Brian H Donohoe | 470 c160 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady may not have been in the House when Robert Adley, the ex-Member for Christchurch, comm...
Show all contributions (147)
Theresa Villiers | 470 c161 (Link to this contribution) Where I agree with the hon. Gentleman is on his statement that the disruptions impacted negatively o...
Andrew Miller | 470 c161 (Link to this contribution) As a regular traveller on the west coast main line, I am particularly interested in the project to w...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c161 (Link to this contribution) It was clearly a huge project, but there is no excuse for the disruption that caused misery to so ma...
Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 470 c161 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady accept that there has been a huge improvement in service since Labour took power?...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c161 (Link to this contribution) It is certainly true that some progress in the rail industry has been made, a significant amount of ...
Lord Bellingham | 470 c162 (Link to this contribution) Further to the point made by the hon. Member for Colchester (Bob Russell), is my hon. Friend aware t...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c161 (Link to this contribution) The serious problem that is revealed, as I shall explore in my speech, is that Network Rail is not s...
Bob Russell | 470 c161 (Link to this contribution) I am a regular user of the railway from Colchester to London Liverpool Street, and I have a lot of s...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c163 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the Government will ever learn the lessons. Not only have they asked us to wait,...
Nicholas Winterton | 470 c163 (Link to this contribution) Is it not likely that the outcome of the whole sad saga will be that the regulator will fine Network...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c162-3 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely lessons must be learned for the future, and it is sad that Network Rail has not always le...
Mark Prisk | 470 c163 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a powerful point about the failure of Network Rail management to learn their le...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c162 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with my hon. Friend, as I will explore later in my speech.
Lord Redwood | 470 c162 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that if Labour really believed that any split in the old British Rail mono...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c162 (Link to this contribution) The reality is that Ministers now have more control over our railways than they did in the days of B...
Andrew Miller | 470 c169 (Link to this contribution) I tried this question with the hon. Member for Chipping Barnet (Mrs. Villiers), but she said that it...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c168-9 (Link to this contribution) Indeed not, and I beg the hon. Lady to wait for the rest of my speech. Before I tackle head-on the i...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c169 (Link to this contribution) If Network Rail could not cope with the scale of that work, how will it cope with all the other proj...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c169 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for his question. I travelled on the west coast main line only a few days ago...
Brian H Donohoe | 470 c169 (Link to this contribution) Is my right hon. Friend aware of problems north of the border? I am sure that her colleague the Unde...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c169 (Link to this contribution) The point I am making is that it is important that the full lessons are learned from the episode. Th...
Nicholas Winterton | 470 c170 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady deal with the question that I put to the Opposition spokesman, my hon. Frie...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c169-70 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree. As I intend to amplify later in my speech, the idea that accountability or lack of...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c170 (Link to this contribution) So does the Secretary of State think that the senior management of Network Rail should be paid their...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c171 (Link to this contribution) I completely agree. The hon. Member for Chipping Barnet should not be proud of the record of her par...
Jim Cunningham | 470 c171 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the investigation, particularly into what happened at Rugby. What angers the public is the...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c170 (Link to this contribution) I am astounded by the fact that the hon. Lady is claiming that we have a public ownership structure ...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c170 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Secretary of State; she is generous in giving way. When her colleague the Secre...
Joan Walley | 470 c171 (Link to this contribution) Our problems stem from the fragmentation that happened during all the years of Tory privatisation—[I...
Speaker | 470 c171 (Link to this contribution) Order. Please have a seat. Interventions should be brief and consideration should be given to Back B...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c170 (Link to this contribution) Certainly, if the results of the investigation by the Office of Rail Regulation suggest that Network...
Stephen Ladyman | 470 c164 (Link to this contribution) There is a word that the hon. Lady is studiously avoiding using: Railtrack. I agree that what Networ...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c165-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right, as ever. Network Rail needs to get a grip and seriously raise it...
Mark Francois | 470 c164-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for her courtesy in giving way again. What happened at Liverpool Street was c...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c164 (Link to this contribution) No. I want to make some progress. It is no answer for Network Rail to blame its contractors, as my ...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c166 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has a treat in store as, in due course, we will publish the results of our rail r...
Ian Lucas | 470 c166 (Link to this contribution) I have been listening to the hon. Lady carefully. The motion refers to the accountability of Network...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 470 c166 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Lady does not want to mislead the House, but she seemed to suggest that the ...
Bob Russell | 470 c167 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is very successfully setting out a case against Network Rail. Where is the evidence th...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c166-7 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that there is an independent element in proposing public members, but that the N...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 470 c166 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady also knows that board members are selected by an independent body. The divide is very ...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c166 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that the board has the final say over the public members appointed, but not over...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c168 (Link to this contribution) Is the Secretary of State saying that she will re-nationalise the rest of the rail industry?
Ruth Kelly | 470 c168 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, To leave out from ““House”” to the end of the Question, and to add instead thereof:"“...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c175 (Link to this contribution) I certainly accept my hon. Friend's point. It is right that the Opposition should wake up to the fac...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 470 c175 (Link to this contribution) Would my right hon. Friend repeat the question that she asked? If the money is not to come from the ...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c175 (Link to this contribution) I have no need to join the hon. Gentleman on his commuter journey. However, I can tell the House tha...
Roger Gale | 470 c175 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady seems to make light of the fare increases. Constituents travelling from east Ken...
Norman Baker | 470 c175 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the point about funding, and we have identified ways of raising funds from public money...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c175 (Link to this contribution) Regulated fares have not risen in real terms since 1997. There have been some increases, especially ...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c176 (Link to this contribution) No, I must now finish my comments. We are not complacent. Recent events clearly show that Network R...
Norman Baker | 470 c176-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Secretary of State for her courteous welcome to me in my position on the Front Bench. I...
Norman Baker | 470 c177 (Link to this contribution) It is certainly the case that Railtrack's failure to deal with engineering properly has made a huge ...
Norman Baker | 470 c177-8 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not agree with that. To be fair, some elements of privatisation worked better than others. ...
Lord Redwood | 470 c177 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not admit that if the Government had come to an agreement with Railtrack, we...
David Drew | 470 c178 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Norman Baker | 470 c178 (Link to this contribution) I will just finish this point and then I will allow the hon. Gentleman to come in, particularly as h...
David Drew | 470 c178 (Link to this contribution) I was trying to be helpful to the hon. Member for Chipping Barnet (Mrs. Villiers) earlier, as I will...
Norman Baker | 470 c178-9 (Link to this contribution) That is true. Network Rail told me that one of the problems was the number of people qualified to re...
Bob Russell | 470 c179 (Link to this contribution) Network Rail is receiving quite a bashing this afternoon—and quite rightly, so far as London Liverpo...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c171 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is correct to raise those issues. This morning, I asked the rail regulator about his ...
Mark Prisk | 470 c172 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way on that point?
Ruth Kelly | 470 c172 (Link to this contribution) Yes, but I must then make progress.
Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 470 c172 (Link to this contribution) While we are still on the issue of the investigations, I should say that my hon. Friend the Member f...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c172 (Link to this contribution) I can confirm that the rail regulator has told me that he will also take into consideration the engi...
Lord Redwood | 470 c171 (Link to this contribution) Is the Secretary of State not aware that last year the taxpayer gave the company 90 per cent. of its...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c172 (Link to this contribution) I think I might know what the right hon. Gentleman's solution is: to revert to a situation in which,...
Mark Prisk | 470 c172 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State is very generous. She rightly links the issue of management performance with ...
Norman Baker | 470 c173 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the Secretary of State agrees with her colleague, the Minister with responsibility ...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c172-3 (Link to this contribution) I have made two points absolutely clear. First, bonus setting is not for the Government; it is not m...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c174 (Link to this contribution) That is one of the issues we need to consider. Indeed, the Office of Rail Regulation will examine th...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c174 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State may think fare rises are a laughing matter, but many families do not. Fare ri...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c173 (Link to this contribution) I would be surprised if the hon. Gentleman were not aware that we have firm, costed plans that are d...
Stephen Ladyman | 470 c174 (Link to this contribution) We have heard Opposition Members suggest that the fare payer should not have to put any more into th...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c174 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. Indeed, I am still not clear about the fares policy of the ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 470 c174 (Link to this contribution) As we are talking of passengers, is the Minister confident that the public were given the right tran...
Norman Baker | 470 c180 (Link to this contribution) That is a matter for the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mrs. Dunwoody) rather than for me. She ...
Nicholas Winterton | 470 c180 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman as interested as I am in one issue? I believe that the Secretary of State said...
Norman Baker | 470 c179 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised that the Secretary of State did not make that point but, having said that, I think th...
Norman Baker | 470 c180 (Link to this contribution) This is a tentative proposal and there will be many people with different answers to the hon. Gentle...
Stephen Ladyman | 470 c180 (Link to this contribution) Somewhat surprisingly, the hon. Gentleman is making rather a good speech and I agree with quite a lo...
Norman Baker | 470 c180 (Link to this contribution) I will take that as a rhetorical question, not least because I cannot provide the answer. It is a va...
Speaker | 470 c214 (Link to this contribution) I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate a disturbance in the No Lobby.
Tom Harris | 470 c211-2 (Link to this contribution) This has been a very good-humoured debate—at least the middle of it; the beginning and end of it hav...
Jeremy Wright | 470 c212 (Link to this contribution) Will the Under-Secretary give way?
Stephen Hammond | 470 c210-1 (Link to this contribution) I am just coming to that point, but I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield. Network...
Stephen Hammond | 470 c207-10 (Link to this contribution) We have had an excellent debate. The stimulus for it was, of course, the overruns in track maintenan...
Norman Baker | 470 c210 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has found Network Rail guilty as charged and there are certainly other issues wit...
Michael Fabricant | 470 c206 (Link to this contribution) I believe that my hon. Friend has until 6.30, but I am grateful to him for giving way. He mentioned ...
Nicholas Winterton | 470 c206-7 (Link to this contribution) Of course, I agree with my very good and honourable Friend. He is making the same point as our hon. ...
Nicholas Winterton | 470 c206 (Link to this contribution) Of course I do. I have always believed that freight should travel by night rather than by day in ord...
Nicholas Winterton | 470 c206 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to do so, but I do not have a great deal of time.
John Pugh | 470 c204-5 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a brief contribution. Oddly, I want to put in a small word of praise for Network Rail...
Nicholas Winterton | 470 c205 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to contribute briefly to this debate and delighted to follow the hon. Member for Southp...
Norman Baker | 470 c206 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting and valid point about inter-city services having priority on...
John Pugh | 470 c203 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may not be mindful of the fact that Merseyrail Electrics has indeed proposed such...
Peter Soulsby | 470 c203 (Link to this contribution) As I have already indicated, I am firmly of the opinion that the arrangements that the Government ha...
Norman Baker | 470 c203 (Link to this contribution) I hope that when the hon. Gentleman reads what I said, he will agree that I set out an alternative a...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c182 (Link to this contribution) I asked a parliamentary question about this matter and it was clear that the Government had no plans...
Norman Baker | 470 c181-2 (Link to this contribution) The Minister seems keen for an answer to that question, and, unlike the Conservatives, I will give h...
John Leech | 470 c181 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the £10 billion investment proposed by the Government is far less tha...
Norman Baker | 470 c180-1 (Link to this contribution) Up to 40. There are currently more than 100, but the number needs to be reduced. What we need to rec...
Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 470 c183-4 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, the subject of today's debate is topical and important, because we should be giving extensi...
Norman Baker | 470 c182-3 (Link to this contribution) At the same time as that bypass is proceeding, the Woodhead tunnel, which could be used for freight ...
Norman Baker | 470 c182 (Link to this contribution) The Peak District national park.
Norman Baker | 470 c182 (Link to this contribution) They have no plans to put any money in. They would be very happy if someone else did all the work an...
Tom Harris | 470 c193 (Link to this contribution) In spite of myself, I am enjoying the right hon. Gentleman's contribution. It is good to know that w...
Lord Redwood | 470 c191-3 (Link to this contribution) We saw a sorry performance from the Government Front Bencher this afternoon. There was a complete la...
Jeremy Wright | 470 c194 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with my right hon. Friend. Does he accept that if Network Rail's management themsel...
Lord Redwood | 470 c194 (Link to this contribution) I am not an expert lawyer on that issue; nor am I any kind of lawyer. However, my understanding and ...
Tom Harris | 470 c194 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way once more. Would he like to share his thoug...
Lord Redwood | 470 c193 (Link to this contribution) My problem with the structure that we chose and with the Government's structure is that I think we l...
Peter Soulsby | 470 c202-3 (Link to this contribution) There is no doubt that the rail industry in the UK is challenged by its own success. The 40 per cent...
Lord Redwood | 470 c198-202 (Link to this contribution) The Minister put it very nicely, but of course I have seen the high level outputs. I would not come ...
Tom Harris | 470 c198 (Link to this contribution) On a point of clarification, the right hon. Gentleman may have missed the publication in July of the...
Lord Redwood | 470 c194-8 (Link to this contribution) I agree, and I hope that the Government will not waste money on that. If Network Rail were a busines...
Lord Redwood | 470 c184 (Link to this contribution) What earthly difference would it have made if Network Rail had owned the trains as well as the track...
Stephen Hammond | 470 c184 (Link to this contribution) I am listening carefully to the hon. Lady, and I think that I follow the line she is taking. Has she...
Norman Baker | 470 c185 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady accept that although the Christmas and new year period was quieter in terms of nu...
Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 470 c184-5 (Link to this contribution) I agree that simply taking things in-house will not necessarily mean that any problems are addressed...
Jeremy Wright | 470 c185-7 (Link to this contribution) It is almost always a pleasure to hear the name of my constituency on the national media, but that w...
Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 470 c185 (Link to this contribution) I agree. As someone who used the railways over the past few weeks, I am aware of what he describes. ...
Jeremy Wright | 470 c188-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree, and I was about to say that one of the most important things about access to Rugby is that ...
Nicholas Winterton | 470 c187-8 (Link to this contribution) I am taken by the moderation of the tone of my hon. Friend's speech. I entirely share his views on t...
Nia Griffith | 470 c189-90 (Link to this contribution) I very much welcome this debate. Many hon. Members have a lot to say about what is happening on the ...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c167 (Link to this contribution) Things would certainly be more positive if there were more co-operation between the management of tr...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c164 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend anticipates what I was about to say. We must remember that the problems were not caus...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c170 (Link to this contribution) I understand the genuine concerns expressed by the hon. Gentleman, and I, like him, sympathise with ...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c164 (Link to this contribution) I am saying that there was major disruption that should not have happened. We should be debating thi...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c168 (Link to this contribution) No. I shall conclude. The hon. Gentleman will get his chance in a minute. The disruption over the n...
John Leech | 470 c176 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Stephen Ladyman | 470 c177 (Link to this contribution) Could that have anything to do with the fact that 15 years ago there was a Tory Government who were ...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c179 (Link to this contribution) On the structure of Network Rail and following the earlier exchange with the hon. Member for Crewe a...
Tom Harris | 470 c212-4 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry but I am not giving way, because I have a limited amount of time. The hon. Member for Ru...
Peter Soulsby | 470 c203-4 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. I recognise that such an alternative was put forward from the Liberal Front Bench; I was ref...
Theresa Villiers | 470 c160 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House is deeply concerned by the track work over-runs by Network Rail on th...
Ruth Kelly | 470 c174-5 (Link to this contribution) I, too, agree that it is important that we have correct and reasonable fare increases for individual...
Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 470 c184 (Link to this contribution) As the right hon. Gentleman will be aware, delays have reduced significantly since Network Rail took...
Subjects
Accountability Finance Railway stations Railways Passengers Network Rail Standards Repairs and maintenance Train operating companies West Coast main line
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