My Lords, I do not think that anybody doubts the Minister’s sincerity, but she should have a little tingle between the shoulder blades when somebody such as the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, and Members of all Benches express concerns about how the Government are going about fulfilling the White Paper. I think she would find much wider support if, as part of this package, there was not a complete emasculation of the Youth Justice Board and a shunting of it to the sidelines. It is not going to play a key part in this study, and it should. There are lots of people who have had experience of the YJB who would like to help the Government in fulfilling this White Paper. The Minister should get out of the cul-de-sac that she is leading us into.

My Lords, I do not think that anybody doubts the Minister’s sincerity, but she should have a little tingle between the shoulder blades when somebody such as the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, and Members of all Benches express concerns about how the Government are going about fulfilling the White Paper. I think she would find much wider support if, as part of this package, there was not a complete emasculation of the Youth Justice Board and a shunting of it to the sidelines. It is not going to play a key part in this study, and it should. There are lots of people who have had experience of the YJB who would like to help the Government in fulfilling this White Paper. The Minister should get out of the cul-de-sac that she is leading us into.

My Lords, the Minister has been rolling out excuses for no action on the Parthenon sculptures that have been used by Ministers of all parties for the last 50 years, at least to my knowledge. The role of museums is changing and there is great

capacity for what I would describe as museum diplomacy. Is she aware what a massive gain it would be for our relations with Greece if—where there is a will, there is a way—we were to be able to return the Parthenon statutes and work with Greece on a celebration of Greek sculpture and art at the British Museum? That is the way museums should be moving, not as receptacles of our imperial past.

My Lords, the Minister has been rolling out excuses for no action on the Parthenon sculptures that have been used by Ministers of all parties for the last 50 years, at least to my knowledge. The role of museums is changing and there is great

capacity for what I would describe as museum diplomacy. Is she aware what a massive gain it would be for our relations with Greece if—where there is a will, there is a way—we were to be able to return the Parthenon statutes and work with Greece on a celebration of Greek sculpture and art at the British Museum? That is the way museums should be moving, not as receptacles of our imperial past.

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the Select Committee on Communications and Digital, under the chair, the noble Baroness, Lady Keeley. I am as keen to see trustworthy journalism as are the Minister and the noble Lord, Lord Black, but before we all go marching shoulder to shoulder,

I wonder if we can look at some of the behaviour. For example, in today’s Daily Mail and MailOnline, there are several articles of a highly personalised nature about the Chancellor. I will give noble Lords a flavour.

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the Select Committee on Communications and Digital, under the chair, the noble Baroness, Lady Keeley. I am as keen to see trustworthy journalism as are the Minister and the noble Lord, Lord Black, but before we all go marching shoulder to shoulder,

I wonder if we can look at some of the behaviour. For example, in today’s Daily Mail and MailOnline, there are several articles of a highly personalised nature about the Chancellor. I will give noble Lords a flavour.

My Lords, I draw the Minister’s attention, and indeed that of the noble Lord, Lord Bellingham, to the article by Hugo Rifkind in the Times yesterday. Hugo Rifkind actually spent five days at Glastonbury and, right at the end of the

article, he points out that he is a Jew. But he points out that Glastonbury was not a hate fest; it was an amazing broadcasting achievement by a public service broadcaster to cover one of the most successful popular music events in the world. We should not simply be going after the director-general’s head. I remind the Front Bench opposite that one of the most disastrous decisions of the Blair Government was to instigate the loss of Greg Dyke as director-general of the BBC over the dodgy dossier. It is very easy for the pack to go after the director-general, but the important issue here, as has just been said, is how we get the benefit of live broadcasting without the perils of second-rate artists causing trouble to get the headlines.

My Lords, I draw the Minister’s attention, and indeed that of the noble Lord, Lord Bellingham, to the article by Hugo Rifkind in the Times yesterday. Hugo Rifkind actually spent five days at Glastonbury and, right at the end of the

article, he points out that he is a Jew. But he points out that Glastonbury was not a hate fest; it was an amazing broadcasting achievement by a public service broadcaster to cover one of the most successful popular music events in the world. We should not simply be going after the director-general’s head. I remind the Front Bench opposite that one of the most disastrous decisions of the Blair Government was to instigate the loss of Greg Dyke as director-general of the BBC over the dodgy dossier. It is very easy for the pack to go after the director-general, but the important issue here, as has just been said, is how we get the benefit of live broadcasting without the perils of second-rate artists causing trouble to get the headlines.

My Lords, the Minister should be very grateful to her father: being thrown in at the deep end is very good training for ministerial life. Has she thought that this might also be a time for some socialist planning? Should not those individual sports that receive the benefits of the lottery and other grants have plans to make sure that they are fit and ready to take up any upturn in interest caused by the Olympics? There are often reports of sports clubs not being ready when interested people start applying.

My Lords, the Minister should be very grateful to her father: being thrown in at the deep end is very good training for ministerial life. Has she thought that this might also be a time for some socialist planning? Should not those individual sports that receive the benefits of the lottery and other grants have plans to make sure that they are fit and ready to take up any upturn in interest caused by the Olympics? There are often reports of sports clubs not being ready when interested people start applying.

My Lords, this Question has a familiar ring to it. On 12 March, the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, said the World Service was

“one of the most powerful soft-power tools that this country possesses

”.—[Official Report, 12/3/24; col. 1916.]

He was followed by a range of noble Lords, including the Foreign Secretary, agreeing with him, just as we do this afternoon. The problem is that, as the retiring director has pointed out—I associate myself with the words from the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, on her work—as things are, the World Service will not be able to deliver that soft power unless it is given proper long-term funding. Given the range of agreement across the House, surely there is the opportunity now for the Government to produce a long-term, well-funded financial plan for the World Service that can meet the desires of the country and this House.

My Lords, this Question has a familiar ring to it. On 12 March, the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, said the World Service was

“one of the most powerful soft-power tools that this country possesses

”.—[Official Report, 12/3/24; col. 1916.]

He was followed by a range of noble Lords, including the Foreign Secretary, agreeing with him, just as we do this afternoon. The problem is that, as the retiring director has pointed out—I associate myself with the words from the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, on her work—as things are, the World Service will not be able to deliver that soft power unless it is given proper long-term funding. Given the range of agreement across the House, surely there is the opportunity now for the Government to produce a long-term, well-funded financial plan for the World Service that can meet the desires of the country and this House.

My Lords, in this House, 68 may seem only early to mid-career, but the general public will be worried at the thought of prison officers of that age carrying on in a very difficult and dangerous job. As part of a broader programme of prison reform, should the Government and the service not be thinking of allowing an earlier retirement age and using the experience gained in other parts of the prison and probation service in the proper through-treatment of prisoners?

My Lords, in this House, 68 may seem only early to mid-career, but the general public will be worried at the thought of prison officers of that age carrying on in a very difficult and dangerous job. As part of a broader programme of prison reform, should the Government and the service not be thinking of allowing an earlier retirement age and using the experience gained in other parts of the prison and probation service in the proper through-treatment of prisoners?

Lords question for short debate on what assessment they have made of the regulation of news broadcasting companies.

Lords question for short debate on what assessment they have made of the regulation of news broadcasting companies.

My Lords, I wish the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, well with this campaign. Does the Minister, from his own vast experience, think that judges could take more responsibility, particularly in cases that have obviously affected the mental health of jurors, and also where judges can push against the law’s delay, which Shakespeare talked about 400 years ago and is still very much a factor in our legal system?

My Lords, I wish the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, well with this campaign. Does the Minister, from his own vast experience, think that judges could take more responsibility, particularly in cases that have obviously affected the mental health of jurors, and also where judges can push against the law’s delay, which Shakespeare talked about 400 years ago and is still very much a factor in our legal system?

My Lords, I am sorry not to give way to the noble Lord.

The Minister’s assurances roll over the Dispatch Box like treacle. Is he not aware that organisations as diverse as BECTU, the technicians’ trade union, and Barbican, the arts centre, are making exactly the same complaints as his noble friend just made? Is not the root cause of this that Brexit, far from being oven-ready, is half-baked and has left our creative industries in particular bereft of support?

My Lords, I am sorry not to give way to the noble Lord.

The Minister’s assurances roll over the Dispatch Box like treacle. Is he not aware that organisations as diverse as BECTU, the technicians’ trade union, and Barbican, the arts centre, are making exactly the same complaints as his noble friend just made? Is not the root cause of this that Brexit, far from being oven-ready, is half-baked and has left our creative industries in particular bereft of support?

My Lords, the Minister has been extremely well briefed, to missing the point. Is he not aware that the tourism agencies in both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland have expressed grave concern at the catastrophic impact this will have on tourism across the island of Ireland, which is very important to both? Can we have some sense of action this day from him, rather than a few more meaningless statistics?

My Lords, the Minister has been extremely well briefed, to missing the point. Is he not aware that the tourism agencies in both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland have expressed grave concern at the catastrophic impact this will have on tourism across the island of Ireland, which is very important to both? Can we have some sense of action this day from him, rather than a few more meaningless statistics?

My Lords, these exchanges have already pinpointed the problem that the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, is trying to highlight. The skills required by the next generation to understand and deal with new technologies are real and present now. Quite frankly, the list he put forward of skills to be acquired are beyond the reach of a single department, including the Department for Education. His idea of a commission, possibly sponsored by the Prime Minister, who has skills in this area, is now needed to avoid moving into another era when most of our population are ill-equipped to deal with the technologies serving them.

My Lords, these exchanges have already pinpointed the problem that the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, is trying to highlight. The skills required by the next generation to understand and deal with new technologies are real and present now. Quite frankly, the list he put forward of skills to be acquired are beyond the reach of a single department, including the Department for Education. His idea of a commission, possibly sponsored by the Prime Minister, who has skills in this area, is now needed to avoid moving into another era when most of our population are ill-equipped to deal with the technologies serving them.

My Lords, nothing the Minister has said so far can give us any confidence that the process is not going to still be influenced by No. 10 Downing Street. Therefore, is it not absolutely imperative

that a system of selection be produced that makes it clear that whoever the incumbent is in No. 10, they will not have undue or improper influence on this appointment? I say this as someone who was once head of the political office in No. 10, so I know how that, under successive Governments, there is a desire to interfere. The Government have an opportunity now to create a really transparent, open system, but they have to have the will to do it as well.

My Lords, nothing the Minister has said so far can give us any confidence that the process is not going to still be influenced by No. 10 Downing Street. Therefore, is it not absolutely imperative

that a system of selection be produced that makes it clear that whoever the incumbent is in No. 10, they will not have undue or improper influence on this appointment? I say this as someone who was once head of the political office in No. 10, so I know how that, under successive Governments, there is a desire to interfere. The Government have an opportunity now to create a really transparent, open system, but they have to have the will to do it as well.

My Lords, I was one of those who slightly teased the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, about Birmingham being the host for the Commonwealth Games, but it was a triumph and a success for the region and showed what can be done with using both old facilities and new, as the Minister referred to. Does any part of the Minister’s department keep an eye on upcoming sporting festivals for which we can make bids, and for which local regional authorities can be encouraged to make bids, because they do have an impact for the region and the country?

My Lords, I was one of those who slightly teased the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, about Birmingham being the host for the Commonwealth Games, but it was a triumph and a success for the region and showed what can be done with using both old facilities and new, as the Minister referred to. Does any part of the Minister’s department keep an eye on upcoming sporting festivals for which we can make bids, and for which local regional authorities can be encouraged to make bids, because they do have an impact for the region and the country?

My Lords, the Minister has twice cited those Acts in defence. Surely there is a case for looking at them and how restrictive they are in modern times. Of course, not all artefacts can be returned to their place of origin, but can your Lordships imagine the queues at the British Museum to look at a

3D replica of the Parthenon marbles, along with a history of where they came from and how they were looked after by the British Museum and then returned to their rightful place in Athens?

My Lords, the Minister has twice cited those Acts in defence. Surely there is a case for looking at them and how restrictive they are in modern times. Of course, not all artefacts can be returned to their place of origin, but can your Lordships imagine the queues at the British Museum to look at a

3D replica of the Parthenon marbles, along with a history of where they came from and how they were looked after by the British Museum and then returned to their rightful place in Athens?

My Lords, very few people agree with the Minister’s analysis or the solutions he has put forward for either Channel 4 or the BBC. I put it to him again that it would be far better to withdraw this rather ill thought-out White Paper and allow the new Secretary of State coming into office in September to look at these matters afresh. If he does not think that there will be a new Secretary of State, would he like to take a bet on it?

My Lords, very few people agree with the Minister’s analysis or the solutions he has put forward for either Channel 4 or the BBC. I put it to him again that it would be far better to withdraw this rather ill thought-out White Paper and allow the new Secretary of State coming into office in September to look at these matters afresh. If he does not think that there will be a new Secretary of State, would he like to take a bet on it?

My Lords, the problem with recycling is not just the recycling but the rubbish that is left behind. How does the Minister think the country should deal with the recycling now going on at No. 10 and the rubbish being left behind?

My Lords, the problem with recycling is not just the recycling but the rubbish that is left behind. How does the Minister think the country should deal with the recycling now going on at No. 10 and the rubbish being left behind?

My Lords, there is a general welcome for the structure that has been set up by Ofcom and the CMA’s Digital Markets Unit to cover the area raised by the Question from the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan. A lot will depend on the remit of the regulators. In a recent Ofcom consultation, there was a push-back by the industry, with regulators having a responsibility not for citizens’ interests but for consumers’ interests. In the words of the great political philosopher Mandy Rice-Davies, they would, wouldn’t they? Will the Government resist this push-back?

My Lords, there is a general welcome for the structure that has been set up by Ofcom and the CMA’s Digital Markets Unit to cover the area raised by the Question from the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan. A lot will depend on the remit of the regulators. In a recent Ofcom consultation, there was a push-back by the industry, with regulators having a responsibility not for citizens’ interests but for consumers’ interests. In the words of the great political philosopher Mandy Rice-Davies, they would, wouldn’t they? Will the Government resist this push-back?

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that the European Convention on Human Rights will for ever be linked to David Maxwell Fyfe who, supported by Winston Churchill, was one of its principal authors. It is implicit in the Question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, that, over the years since its passage, we have been both a leader by example and an influencer in Europe. Is the Minister really satisfied—I am sorry to say this in welcoming him—to continue to be a member of a Government who are quite clearly using civil liberties, human rights and the convention itself as what is described as a wedge issue to inflame and enthuse the right wing of the Tory party, instead of giving the moral leadership that all parties have taken pride in since its inception?

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that the European Convention on Human Rights will for ever be linked to David Maxwell Fyfe who, supported by Winston Churchill, was one of its principal authors. It is implicit in the Question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, that, over the years since its passage, we have been both a leader by example and an influencer in Europe. Is the Minister really satisfied—I am sorry to say this in welcoming him—to continue to be a member of a Government who are quite clearly using civil liberties, human rights and the convention itself as what is described as a wedge issue to inflame and enthuse the right wing of the Tory party, instead of giving the moral leadership that all parties have taken pride in since its inception?

No, they have had about three goes.

I was a member of the Puttnam committee that gave pre-legislative scrutiny to the 2003 Act. The truth is that Ofcom put on the back burner its responsibilities in this area until it came under pressure by the fact that the new Online Safety Bill was going to increase its responsibilities in this area. I think the Minister’s answers so far have been very complacent given that, since 2003, we have become much more aware of the abuses and dangers inherent in this technology. We must give Ofcom more specific legislative powers in the coming Bill.

No, they have had about three goes.

I was a member of the Puttnam committee that gave pre-legislative scrutiny to the 2003 Act. The truth is that Ofcom put on the back burner its responsibilities in this area until it came under pressure by the fact that the new Online Safety Bill was going to increase its responsibilities in this area. I think the Minister’s answers so far have been very complacent given that, since 2003, we have become much more aware of the abuses and dangers inherent in this technology. We must give Ofcom more specific legislative powers in the coming Bill.