My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, suggested that the Conservative Party was being converted to the cause of devolution. The problem is that it is, like many recent converts, becoming quite messianic about it. It now proposes to reduce the threshold—or at least the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, does, from his...

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, suggested that the Conservative Party was being converted to the cause of devolution. The problem is that it is, like many recent converts, becoming quite messianic about it. It now proposes to reduce the threshold—or at least the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, does, from his...

Once again, my Lords, I respectfully ask the noble Lord opposite to present some consistency. It appears that the intention behind these amendments is that by removing the clauses the Assembly would move straight to Part 4 of the Bill without the need for a referendum. The enthusiasm for devolution now on the...

Once again, my Lords, I respectfully ask the noble Lord opposite to present some consistency. It appears that the intention behind these amendments is that by removing the clauses the Assembly would move straight to Part 4 of the Bill without the need for a referendum. The enthusiasm for devolution now on the...

My Lords, I was grateful for the support of the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, on the previous amendment. Although he supported a two-thirds majority to prevent a premature referendum, his amendment includes an arbitrary timescale. The Government do not oscillate between these two positions but are consistent. Our view is that there...

My Lords, I was grateful for the support of the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, on the previous amendment. Although he supported a two-thirds majority to prevent a premature referendum, his amendment includes an arbitrary timescale. The Government do not oscillate between these two positions but are consistent. Our view is that there...

My Lords, the central aim of the noble Lord’s amendments appears to be to impose a six-month period of parliamentary pre-legislative scrutiny.

My Lords, the central aim of the noble Lord’s amendments appears to be to impose a six-month period of parliamentary pre-legislative scrutiny.

My Lords, we are at one on the question of effective pre-legislative scrutiny, but where I am bound to differ from the amendment is that it makes it quite clear that there is an obligation on Parliament with regard to this situation, which I am bound to have difficulties in accepting. It...

My Lords, we are at one on the question of effective pre-legislative scrutiny, but where I am bound to differ from the amendment is that it makes it quite clear that there is an obligation on Parliament with regard to this situation, which I am bound to have difficulties in accepting. It...

We owe my noble friend a debt of gratitude for triggering an important part of the debate on how the Orders in Council and measures are intended to work. I am grateful to him for tabling the amendment. It is part of the constructive work that he has done also on...

We owe my noble friend a debt of gratitude for triggering an important part of the debate on how the Orders in Council and measures are intended to work. I am grateful to him for tabling the amendment. It is part of the constructive work that he has done also on...

I am grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate, not least to the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, who gives me an entrée into what happens with regard to general legislation. One of the objections to the new clause is that it would cut across existing practice and duties...

I am grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate, not least to the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, who gives me an entrée into what happens with regard to general legislation. One of the objections to the new clause is that it would cut across existing practice and duties...

I realise that there are issues with the precise detail of legislation. First, however, I have shown that the broad principles of developing Welsh legislation will be easier to identify because the Bill makes provision for that. When it comes down to the particular detail, is the noble Baroness suggesting that Welsh...

I realise that there are issues with the precise detail of legislation. First, however, I have shown that the broad principles of developing Welsh legislation will be easier to identify because the Bill makes provision for that. When it comes down to the particular detail, is the noble Baroness suggesting that Welsh...

I hear what my noble friend says, and I recognise that he has drawn attention to an issue where there may be a necessity for remedy, but not in this Bill.

I hear what my noble friend says, and I recognise that he has drawn attention to an issue where there may be a necessity for remedy, but not in this Bill.

This is an important topic, and I am not surprised that the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Llandudno, suggests that we might have a further debate on this issue. I will give him the assurances now, and he can dwell on them. I guess that he is likely to ask for them to become...

This is an important topic, and I am not surprised that the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Llandudno, suggests that we might have a further debate on this issue. I will give him the assurances now, and he can dwell on them. I guess that he is likely to ask for them to become...

I am grateful to the Members of the Committee who tabled the amendments. They may be probing so far as the noble Baroness is concerned, but they strike the usual terror into the Government so she must recognise that I expect them to be in a perfect state and will address them...

I am grateful to the Members of the Committee who tabled the amendments. They may be probing so far as the noble Baroness is concerned, but they strike the usual terror into the Government so she must recognise that I expect them to be in a perfect state and will address them...

That is precisely the case. Not only might more measures be proposed under the powers granted by a specific Order in Council, but it is not unknown for legislative bodies to change their minds—it is not unknown for legislative bodies to see different majority parties in control, which certainly change...

That is precisely the case. Not only might more measures be proposed under the powers granted by a specific Order in Council, but it is not unknown for legislative bodies to change their minds—it is not unknown for legislative bodies to see different majority parties in control, which certainly change...

No, that would not be possible. The Order in Council specifies the area of competence of the Assembly. I emphasise to the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, that the area of competence would have been identified. The preparation of the Order in Council would require intensive pre-legislative scrutiny to identify exactly the information...

No, that would not be possible. The Order in Council specifies the area of competence of the Assembly. I emphasise to the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, that the area of competence would have been identified. The preparation of the Order in Council would require intensive pre-legislative scrutiny to identify exactly the information...

What the noble Lord is referring to in his mention of Clause 94(3) is implicit also in the approach of the amendments tabled in his name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Roberts. In the Government’s view, the Opposition Benches are arguing for proposals that set things back to front. The draft...

What the noble Lord is referring to in his mention of Clause 94(3) is implicit also in the approach of the amendments tabled in his name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Roberts. In the Government’s view, the Opposition Benches are arguing for proposals that set things back to front. The draft...

I am grateful to all noble Lords, who sought to be constructive and helpful with their interjections, but I particularly appreciate the clarification of the issue by the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan. He was absolutely right: that is the nature of the proposals in the Bill. I want to clarify the point introduced by...

I am grateful to all noble Lords, who sought to be constructive and helpful with their interjections, but I particularly appreciate the clarification of the issue by the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan. He was absolutely right: that is the nature of the proposals in the Bill. I want to clarify the point introduced by...

The Committee will not be surprised that the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, alighted on this issue and identified it in his Amendment No. 62. I want to respond in a considered way to his arguments and anxieties, because if one concept sets alarm bells ringing among all those who hold democracy dear, it...

The Committee will not be surprised that the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, alighted on this issue and identified it in his Amendment No. 62. I want to respond in a considered way to his arguments and anxieties, because if one concept sets alarm bells ringing among all those who hold democracy dear, it...

I understand the anxiety of the noble Lord. He will also recognise that if it worries him, it would worry many Members of this House and the other place if an Order in Council was introduced which would so grievously affect the rights of people engaged in litigation. I want to give...

I understand the anxiety of the noble Lord. He will also recognise that if it worries him, it would worry many Members of this House and the other place if an Order in Council was introduced which would so grievously affect the rights of people engaged in litigation. I want to give...

Of course some judgment has to be made by the Secretary of State, otherwise the Conservatives would be not only arguing most enthusiastically for devolution, but saying that the rest of Britain had no role whatever in this process. A vote in an Assembly that was carried by a majority...

Of course some judgment has to be made by the Secretary of State, otherwise the Conservatives would be not only arguing most enthusiastically for devolution, but saying that the rest of Britain had no role whatever in this process. A vote in an Assembly that was carried by a majority...

No. If the noble Lord, Lord Henley, reads the Bill carefully, he will recognise that what is being said in it is that two-thirds of the Assembly should support the proposal for a referendum before the process is undertaken. The basis is not one man at all, but very considerable support...

No. If the noble Lord, Lord Henley, reads the Bill carefully, he will recognise that what is being said in it is that two-thirds of the Assembly should support the proposal for a referendum before the process is undertaken. The basis is not one man at all, but very considerable support...

I think that that is right, but the Secretary of State has responsibilities. Therefore it is entirely appropriate for the Secretary of State to exercise a limited area of discrete powers, as the noble Lord indicated, before the decision of the Assembly is implemented. That is all that is being proposed in...

I think that that is right, but the Secretary of State has responsibilities. Therefore it is entirely appropriate for the Secretary of State to exercise a limited area of discrete powers, as the noble Lord indicated, before the decision of the Assembly is implemented. That is all that is being proposed in...