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Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill 2022-23

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Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill 2022-23 (27)

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Moved by

Baroness O'Loan

37: Clause 5, page 4, line 37, leave out “reasonably”

Member’s explanatory statement

This amendment and the new Clause after Clause 5 in the name of Baroness O’Loan give the ICRIR the right to require information, documents and other material from all the organisations listed in the definition of “relevant...

Member
Baroness O'Loan (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 c633
House
House of Lords

My Lords, the amendments in this group deal with the requirements in Clause 5 to provide full disclosure of information to the ICRIR. They are intended to assist the ICRIR in its work and are quite simple, but slightly technical.

In normal circumstances, the Police Ombudsman and many other public policing...

Member
Baroness O'Loan (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 cc633-5
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 145 in my name, and I also support the amendments in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan. Amendment 145 is quite different from most of the other amendments put forward to the Bill. I am aware that it might sound a...

Member
Baroness Smith of Newnham (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 cc635-6
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, for bringing forward these amendments, which I think are very helpful. However, she said earlier—the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, referenced it as well—that while many in your Lordships’ House, perhaps everyone, think that this Bill is not fit for purpose and...

Member
Baroness Smith of Basildon (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 c636
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I am grateful to those noble Lords who have put forward

these amendments. In responding, I am conscious of the experience in these matters of the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, both in her role as police ombudsman and in the subsequent investigations and reviews that she has carried...

Member
Lord Caine (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 cc636-7
House
House of Lords

I thank the Minister for giving way; I know that it is late. I just want to let him know that, as police ombudsman, I had a power to require information. There was no requirement of reasonableness in the requests; clearly, the requests were reasonable, but there was no requirement...

Member
Baroness O'Loan (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 c637
House
House of Lords

I totally accept what the noble Baroness says about her experience as police ombudsman; I think that it has been less straightforward in the case of information from other bodies over the years. That is why the Government have placed this obligation on bodies to disclose information, which goes further...

Member
Lord Caine (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 cc637-8
House
House of Lords

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Member
Baroness O'Loan (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 c638
House
House of Lords

Moved by

Lord Caine

84: Schedule 4, page 64, line 39, leave out “£1,000” and insert “£5,000”

Member’s explanatory statement

This increases the maximum penalty for failure to comply with an information notice under section 14 from £1,000 to £5,000.

Member
Lord Caine (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 c640
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I plan to be brief. At the introduction, the Bill made provision for amendments to the early release scheme under the Northern Ireland (Sentences) Act 1998, with the effect that a person convicted of a Troubles-related offence could, in future, apply for immediate release from prison, regardless of...

Member
Lord Caine (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 cc640-1
House
House of Lords

My Lords, with respect, I am not sure why these measures are described as incentives. Certainly, the victims and survivors whom I met yesterday did not regard them in any way as incentives, and it does not seem to me or them that those who hold information that may be...

Member
Baroness O'Loan (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 c641
House
House of Lords

I want briefly to ask the Minister how he feels people should be incentivised and whether this is the case in the Bill. The reality, as we have heard in previous debates, is that in many cases the consequences of not co-operating are nothing. If you do not co-operate, nothing...

Member
Lord Bruce of Bennachie (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 c641
House
House of Lords

These are reasonably sensible amendments, but they go only so far. The points made by the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, and the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, are valid and we look forward to the Minister’s reply. If these amendments came to a vote, it is highly unlikely that we would...

Member
Lord Murphy of Torfaen (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 c641
House
House of Lords

I am grateful to those who took part in this short debate. By way of a brief response, I disagree on the point about incentives. I have spoken to a number of victims’ groups and political parties that, while they might not like other parts of the Bill,

have no...

Member
Lord Caine (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 cc641-2
House
House of Lords

Moved by

Baroness Suttie

94: Clause 15, page 13, line 33, at end insert—

“(c) allow those persons to submit, for inclusion in the final report, a victim impact statement which sets out the physical, emotional, social or financial impact upon them of the matters contained in the report.

(4A) The ICRIR must produce...

Member
Baroness Suttie (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 c642
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 94 and 95, tabled in my name and signed by the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, and the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie. The Minister will recognise that these amendments are from the victims’ commissioner and that they seek to focus the Bill more on...

Member
Baroness Suttie (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 cc642-3
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I am very pleased to have been a signatory to these amendments and to assist the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, in dealing with the needs of victims. The need for these amendments became very apparent last night, when we were talking to the victims associated with SEFF. As...

Member
Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 c643
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I support the amendments tabled by the noble Baronesses, Lady Suttie and Lady Ritchie, and the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, which provide for the inclusion of victim impact assessments, which are now part of normal criminal justice processes, in the consideration of a final report on a review...

Member
Baroness O'Loan (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 cc643-4
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I too want to give some support to this amendment because it touches on what we were crying out for in earlier debates, which is a small but significant voice for victims. As I tried to say this afternoon, these are real people who would perceive in some...

Member
Lord Eames (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 c644
House
House of Lords

I too support Amendments 94 and 96 tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, but I shall speak briefly to the amendment that I have tabled, Amendment 166. I am grateful for the support of the noble Lords, Lord Blair and Lord Hogan-Howe, and the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, most...

Member
Lord Hain (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
31 January 2023
Reference
827 cc644-5
House
House of Lords