I feel I ought to apologise for tabling this amendment, because it seems to have consumed so much of your Lordships’ time when it perhaps might have been better served, not in your Lordships’ House, but in your Lordships’ Dining Room. Time is moving on. This issue is just another...

I feel I ought to apologise for tabling this amendment, because it seems to have consumed so much of your Lordships’ time when it perhaps might have been better served, not in your Lordships’ House, but in your Lordships’ Dining Room. Time is moving on. This issue is just another...

I am sorry to interrupt the noble Baroness. How do the Government think sub-paragraph (3) is going to work? Having listened to the opposing views as to whether the board should be proactive or reactive, I say that surely the board will have to do a great deal of investigation...

I am sorry to interrupt the noble Baroness. How do the Government think sub-paragraph (3) is going to work? Having listened to the opposing views as to whether the board should be proactive or reactive, I say that surely the board will have to do a great deal of investigation...

I was going to make in essence the same suggestion. We need a test that has to be tested; in some way we have to find that. It has to be defined, and ““substantial”” is a usual form of definition. If you add ““substantial effect”” or something like that, it...

I was going to make in essence the same suggestion. We need a test that has to be tested; in some way we have to find that. It has to be defined, and ““substantial”” is a usual form of definition. If you add ““substantial effect”” or something like that, it...

I recognise these words, which are familiar from the memorandum of association of limited companies; they have been pretty standard for 100 to 150 years. There is a lot of case law about what they do or do not permit. I suggest that one of the Minister’s team might have...

I recognise these words, which are familiar from the memorandum of association of limited companies; they have been pretty standard for 100 to 150 years. There is a lot of case law about what they do or do not permit. I suggest that one of the Minister’s team might have...

Does the proposal in Amendment No. 33A represent the policy of the Government on the relationship between the front-line regulators and the LSB?

Does the proposal in Amendment No. 33A represent the policy of the Government on the relationship between the front-line regulators and the LSB?

I strongly agree with my noble friends. Indeed, it may reassure my noble friend Lord Campbell of Alloway to know that in the next group we debate the important Amendment No. 33A. In the mean time, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Kingsland on Amendment No. 33. It is vital...

I strongly agree with my noble friends. Indeed, it may reassure my noble friend Lord Campbell of Alloway to know that in the next group we debate the important Amendment No. 33A. In the mean time, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Kingsland on Amendment No. 33. It is vital...

I hope that in this debate we will go beyond comforting words to a little more precision about how the Government intend to ensure that the general principle of proportionality, to which they have given assent, will be reflected in the Bill in a manner that reassures those who have...

I hope that in this debate we will go beyond comforting words to a little more precision about how the Government intend to ensure that the general principle of proportionality, to which they have given assent, will be reflected in the Bill in a manner that reassures those who have...

My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to. House in Committee accordingly. [The LORD SPEAKER in the Chair.] Clause 3 [The Board’s duty to promote the regulatory objectives etc]: [Amendment No....

My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to. House in Committee accordingly. [The LORD SPEAKER in the Chair.] Clause 3 [The Board’s duty to promote the regulatory objectives etc]: [Amendment No....

moved Amendment No. 33: 33: Clause 3, page 2, line 35, at end insert— ““(4) In assessing what is proportionate in the regulation of approved regulators the Board shall have regard, inter alia, to— (a) the regulator’s resources (including voluntary resources) and the effect on them of the Board’s acts;...

moved Amendment No. 33: 33: Clause 3, page 2, line 35, at end insert— ““(4) In assessing what is proportionate in the regulation of approved regulators the Board shall have regard, inter alia, to— (a) the regulator’s resources (including voluntary resources) and the effect on them of the Board’s acts;...

I support the amendment. It concerns proportionality, but proportionality is like a piece of a jigsaw: when this is put together with other amendments to the Bill, it serves, in effect, as a safeguard for the implementation of the Bill in a manner that can retain public confidence. It cannot...

I support the amendment. It concerns proportionality, but proportionality is like a piece of a jigsaw: when this is put together with other amendments to the Bill, it serves, in effect, as a safeguard for the implementation of the Bill in a manner that can retain public confidence. It cannot...

The noble Lord, Lord Maclennan, is absolutely right to say that the purpose of this stage of our deliberations is to define the issues that noble Lords feel are of great concern. I hope that he will recognise that one of my roles—I am not the policy Minister on this...

The noble Lord, Lord Maclennan, is absolutely right to say that the purpose of this stage of our deliberations is to define the issues that noble Lords feel are of great concern. I hope that he will recognise that one of my roles—I am not the policy Minister on this...

I think that we should press the Minister a little further on this important amendment. Nothing in the Bill indicates that the Legal Services Board is intended to act as a supervisory regulator, leaving day-to-day responsibility with the approved regulators and exercising its powers only where they are clearly failing....

I think that we should press the Minister a little further on this important amendment. Nothing in the Bill indicates that the Legal Services Board is intended to act as a supervisory regulator, leaving day-to-day responsibility with the approved regulators and exercising its powers only where they are clearly failing....

I am grateful to the noble Lord for spelling out the detail on this matter and I will try to respond. I do not think that anything divides the Committee and the Government in terms of wanting the front-line regulators to do the regulation and the Legal Services Board to...

I am grateful to the noble Lord for spelling out the detail on this matter and I will try to respond. I do not think that anything divides the Committee and the Government in terms of wanting the front-line regulators to do the regulation and the Legal Services Board to...

What we want the Bill to make clear is that lead responsibility is intended to rest with the professional bodies, with the LSB exercising its powers only in the event of a regulatory failure. That is what Sir David Clementi recommended, but it is not yet in the Bill.

What we want the Bill to make clear is that lead responsibility is intended to rest with the professional bodies, with the LSB exercising its powers only in the event of a regulatory failure. That is what Sir David Clementi recommended, but it is not yet in the Bill.

I am grateful to the noble Lord. We think that what he asks for is there in the totality of the Bill. Reasonably, he is saying that that is not as easy to see as I claim that it is. The best thing that I can do, as he may...

I am grateful to the noble Lord. We think that what he asks for is there in the totality of the Bill. Reasonably, he is saying that that is not as easy to see as I claim that it is. The best thing that I can do, as he may...

In some ways, yes. But the difficulty with the amendment is that it says that the LSB must ensure that the functions are being carried out, which is a more proactive approach than the one that the Government envisage. In other words, under Clause 27 there are clear things that...

In some ways, yes. But the difficulty with the amendment is that it says that the LSB must ensure that the functions are being carried out, which is a more proactive approach than the one that the Government envisage. In other words, under Clause 27 there are clear things that...

If the Minister is right in her answer to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern—and I would beg to doubt it—it adds to the incubus that rests on her shoulders to come up with a better form of words. To my mind, the form of words that...

If the Minister is right in her answer to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern—and I would beg to doubt it—it adds to the incubus that rests on her shoulders to come up with a better form of words. To my mind, the form of words that...

I am grateful to the noble Lord for putting that so succinctly.

I am grateful to the noble Lord for putting that so succinctly.

I greatly appreciated the noble Lord’s speech. In a sentence, he is saying that the parameters within which discretion is to be exercised must be in the Bill, otherwise it is an absolute discretion.

I greatly appreciated the noble Lord’s speech. In a sentence, he is saying that the parameters within which discretion is to be exercised must be in the Bill, otherwise it is an absolute discretion.

I strongly support the words of the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, about the centrality and importance of this amendment. He has eloquently made clear that the two routes considered by Sir David Clementi for advancing the regulation of legal services were properly debated within that study and were subsequently considered...

I strongly support the words of the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, about the centrality and importance of this amendment. He has eloquently made clear that the two routes considered by Sir David Clementi for advancing the regulation of legal services were properly debated within that study and were subsequently considered...