This new offence criminalises conduct that on its own is currently not an offence. It does not mean that, if there was evidence of dishonesty, the person against whom the claim was made would not be prosecuted under the Fraud Act. This is a new offence but, if dishonesty were...

This new offence criminalises conduct that on its own is currently not an offence. It does not mean that, if there was evidence of dishonesty, the person against whom the claim was made would not be prosecuted under the Fraud Act. This is a new offence but, if dishonesty were...

I certainly have some sympathy with the submission of the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway. After all, we are a reviewing Chamber, and we are reviewing one of the most important pieces of legislation ever to have come our way. Whether we like it or not, and whether or...

I certainly have some sympathy with the submission of the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway. After all, we are a reviewing Chamber, and we are reviewing one of the most important pieces of legislation ever to have come our way. Whether we like it or not, and whether or...

I warmly welcome this amendment. I am sure that it improves the Bill as a whole. I want to add one thing. The Bill is extremely hurried, there is no question about that, but the Member of the House who is most inconvenienced and put to the most trouble by...

I warmly welcome this amendment. I am sure that it improves the Bill as a whole. I want to add one thing. The Bill is extremely hurried, there is no question about that, but the Member of the House who is most inconvenienced and put to the most trouble by...

Amendment 80B 80B: Clause 10, page 8, line 17, after "to" insert "the Committee on Standards in Public Life or to" Amendment 80B agreed. Clause 10, as amended, agreed. Clause 11 : Power to make transitional etc provision Amendment 81 had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List. Amendment 81A not...

Amendment 80B 80B: Clause 10, page 8, line 17, after "to" insert "the Committee on Standards in Public Life or to" Amendment 80B agreed. Clause 10, as amended, agreed. Clause 11 : Power to make transitional etc provision Amendment 81 had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List. Amendment 81A not...

I support the taking out of subsections (2) and (3), but I want to make one further point on subsection (1) and on the fact that there would be a maximum 12-month sentence. If the Minister is right and there is a distinction to be drawn between the offence created...

I support the taking out of subsections (2) and (3), but I want to make one further point on subsection (1) and on the fact that there would be a maximum 12-month sentence. If the Minister is right and there is a distinction to be drawn between the offence created...

I am not saying that it is symbolic and presentational at all. I said that we believe that the new offence is absolutely necessary. However, it is my profound hope that the activities of MPs and the way in which people conduct themselves will be so improved that in future...

I am not saying that it is symbolic and presentational at all. I said that we believe that the new offence is absolutely necessary. However, it is my profound hope that the activities of MPs and the way in which people conduct themselves will be so improved that in future...

That has been the very crux of our arguments today. What I am suggesting is that I will go away and consider the possibility of guidance and what that guidance will say. I have undertaken to come back to noble Lords on that.

That has been the very crux of our arguments today. What I am suggesting is that I will go away and consider the possibility of guidance and what that guidance will say. I have undertaken to come back to noble Lords on that.

Listening to the speech of my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern, I thought that he demolished the Bill on an important legal point about changing the law. The noble Baroness the Leader of the House has not answered my noble and learned friend’s point at all. It...

Listening to the speech of my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern, I thought that he demolished the Bill on an important legal point about changing the law. The noble Baroness the Leader of the House has not answered my noble and learned friend’s point at all. It...

I have not yet concluded what I was saying. I will come back to answer the points made by the noble and learned Lord, for whom I have the utmost respect. I have to agree with the point that was made earlier, because I am advised—I believe that I have...

I have not yet concluded what I was saying. I will come back to answer the points made by the noble and learned Lord, for whom I have the utmost respect. I have to agree with the point that was made earlier, because I am advised—I believe that I have...

I should speak on this briefly because I am one of the Members who gave notice of their intention to oppose the Question that Clause 8 stand part. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, have made interesting and important points....

I should speak on this briefly because I am one of the Members who gave notice of their intention to oppose the Question that Clause 8 stand part. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, have made interesting and important points....

I reinforce what my noble friend has just said, because that is my concern both about the Bill and this clause. The noble Baroness seems to think that the Bill is being introduced to meet public concern and that that is justification for it. It is not addressing public concern;...

I reinforce what my noble friend has just said, because that is my concern both about the Bill and this clause. The noble Baroness seems to think that the Bill is being introduced to meet public concern and that that is justification for it. It is not addressing public concern;...

What the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, has said is very interesting. I have already spoken once on the clause stand part, but the way in which the debate has moved on has raised in me another thought. I agree completely that the Clause 8 that we now have is a...

What the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, has said is very interesting. I have already spoken once on the clause stand part, but the way in which the debate has moved on has raised in me another thought. I agree completely that the Clause 8 that we now have is a...

I have tried to be helpful to my noble friend throughout the Bill but I want to say something now which I hope does not worry her. I think that MPs will not understand the distinction on this issue of dishonesty. It is worrying me, the more I think about...

I have tried to be helpful to my noble friend throughout the Bill but I want to say something now which I hope does not worry her. I think that MPs will not understand the distinction on this issue of dishonesty. It is worrying me, the more I think about...

On the last point of the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, one of the key purposes of the Bill is to address the demonstrable public concern of the past few months and to improve the confidence and trust of the public in our system of governance. However, it is...

On the last point of the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, one of the key purposes of the Bill is to address the demonstrable public concern of the past few months and to improve the confidence and trust of the public in our system of governance. However, it is...

Is the guidance likely to draw the Member’s attention to the fact that, if a knowingly false claim is made, the Member would be liable to prosecution? Would that prosecution liability come under the Fraud Act or would it come under this Bill? If so, what is difference between the...

Is the guidance likely to draw the Member’s attention to the fact that, if a knowingly false claim is made, the Member would be liable to prosecution? Would that prosecution liability come under the Fraud Act or would it come under this Bill? If so, what is difference between the...

Clarity is of the essence whenever offences are being discussed. A person must know whether or not what they are doing is against the law. Like the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, I do not think that standards have slipped so far that people do not know when they...

Clarity is of the essence whenever offences are being discussed. A person must know whether or not what they are doing is against the law. Like the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, I do not think that standards have slipped so far that people do not know when they...

I, too, would like to express concern about the message that is sent to the public. I greatly agree with my noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours that this is really about driving the message home to Members of Parliament, but I am afraid that the message to the public will be...

I, too, would like to express concern about the message that is sent to the public. I greatly agree with my noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours that this is really about driving the message home to Members of Parliament, but I am afraid that the message to the public will be...

There is an important distinction to be made between a perfectly dotty expenses system from which people can legally claim, albeit with a difference of morality, and doing things like—I am not quite sure if I am in order here—claiming interest on a mortgage that does not exist. Claiming interest...

There is an important distinction to be made between a perfectly dotty expenses system from which people can legally claim, albeit with a difference of morality, and doing things like—I am not quite sure if I am in order here—claiming interest on a mortgage that does not exist. Claiming interest...

Amendment 77ZB 77ZB: Clause 8, page 6, line 42, leave out subsection (5) Amendment 77ZB agreed. Amendment 77A had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List. Debate on whether Clause 8, as amended, should stand part of the Bill.

Amendment 77ZB 77ZB: Clause 8, page 6, line 42, leave out subsection (5) Amendment 77ZB agreed. Amendment 77A had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List. Debate on whether Clause 8, as amended, should stand part of the Bill.